The Benefits Of Barebacking For Poz Guys
Share: 
28 October 2008 | 21 Comments
I’m swamped with work and it’s making me not so horny… Guys want to hookup and I just never seem up for it. I’ll get back in the swing of things in a couple days, but I thought I’d share a study I found through LifeLube (possibly the only pro-condom site I’ll say good things about).
The gist of the study is that repeated exposure to other strains of HIV maintains a strong anti-HIV immune response in the bodies of guys who are already poz. While super-infection is theoretically possible, it’s extremely rare. What’s more normal is for the poz bottom to actually benefit from the poz cum he’s getting in his ass…
We found that individuals, who regularly engaged in unprotected receptive sexual intercourse with an HIV-1 infected viremic partner, displayed higher T cell responses to HIV proteins compared to those who were not regularly exposed to a viremic partner. None of the individuals within this study showed evidence of systemic super-infection. Exposure had limited impact on general activation or poly-functionality. These results are clearly of importance for HIV-1 infected individuals who chose to engage in unprotected sexual activity with other HIV-1 infected individuals. These data also reveal a more general mechanism that occurs in infectious diseases: immune responses to chronic viruses are influenced not only by the virus within the host, but also by exposure to the virus from without.
So from an HIV perspective, poz guys apparently will stay healthier if they take loads up their ass from other poz guys, at least on average. Of course you also have to factor in the negative effect of the other STDs you’re likely to get – it’s not 100% beneficial.
hm, so for health reasons you are not the TOP of first choice to poz bottoms…
Im a published HIV researcher, doctor and gay and WRONG! You can be infected with a more virulent strain resistant to more drugs. But I guess you would not care what I have to say if you are getting your health advice from raw top rather than JAMA, NEJM, CDC, Journal of Virology, Blood, Journal of Immunology or even any Nature journal.
What is troubling is using this article to promote unsafe sex. That is not what they are trying to do by publishing this. 49 couples is not a very large sample to draw any conclusions from.
This study has to do with “long term” couples, not multiple partners. This study does not mean that Dawson will live forever.
“Here, we have shown that HIV-1+ individuals who are regularly exposed to an HIV-1+ viremic long-term partner display greater HIV-1-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells responses, than infected subjects with aviremic partners.”
“kevin Says:
This study has to do with “long term” couples, not multiple partners.”
Then…
“rawTOP Says:
@kevin – I’m not seeing why the results would be different if you looked at guys who fucked with anonymous partners.”
You shouldn’t draw any conclusions. You can’t extrapolate that the results from this study will be the same as a single guy getting fucked by multiple partners. There are too many variables. Ask any doctor on that one.
Find me a study concerning only guys who take cum up the ass from multiple partners who are HIV+ and then we can have a serious discussion about the medical “benefits” and/or drawbacks of bare backing. Just saying it sounds completely ludicrous at face value.
Not wanting to run the point into the ground, but I see this as another example of a guy caught up so much in the bare backing lifestyle that he can’t be rational. You want so much to continue your irresponsible behavior (non disclosure, fucking bug chasers) you will latch onto any story and use it to justify your actions.
Every medical expert and gay community leader would condemn what you embrace as your right as a free gay man to do what you want no matter what the deadly consequences may be.
Peace out
Tom
The world you live in and want to be a part of is about bare backing and anonymous sex. That is your world. There is a whole other world out there you’re not exposed to of people and couples that prefer monogamy, safe sex, or few partners.
I live in Ft. Lauderdale. One of the and sleaziest cities for gay men in the country. Getting sex here is as easy as shopping at the grocery store. In fact you can easily get picked up at the grocery store. 🙂
Still there are many people and couples who do not fall into your “aren’t monogamous” category. They are monogamous and happy. You don’t know they exist because you choose not to be a part of their world. I imagine most of your friends and acquaintances are bare backers. Birds of a feather……
Unfortunately we also have an epidemic in STD’s and HIV cases too, Why? Because too many people think it’s still OK to bareback and act irresponsibly.
Young, uneducated, and impressionable, kids and adolescents see your actions and web site and think it must be OK to do this. Because of the explosion of the media and technology, these kids are constantly exposed to sites like yours and behavior like yours. This continuous barrage of unsafe and questionable behavior makes it much easier to mimic the same behavior. To let down their guard and allow irresponsible behavior in.
We as adults have some responsibility in doing what we can to help them and educate them so they stay safe, STD free, and HIV-. It’s all a part of caring about your fellow man and not being so self centered that you lose much of your humanity towards others. You lose site of the greater good because your hormones are raging which in turn drives you to do what you do.
As I have said before, it’s a shared responsibility in keeping people safe. Especially if it involves young people who desperately need role models to look up to.
@rawTOP – “Your “monogamous” friends are just putting up a façade… Trust me – get them drunk and they’ll tell you the truth.”
On this point about relationships, I have to agree with rawTOP.
Although the idea of monogamy sounds good at least initially, it’s not practical for most gay men over the longer term. If you insist on monogamy, the relationships usually ends when the sex becomes boring or one partner finds out the other has cheated on them.
The longest lasting gay relationships I have known, including my own (20 years since we met when I was 21) are those that eventually become an “open” relationship where sex with the same person isn’t as important as knowing you both have someone who mutually loves and cares about one another.
Most of my friends in long term relationships (usually 15+) say the secret is to eventually come to an understanding with your partner about your external playbuds and how you play with them (that determines if you will both still play together or just sleep together). The rest is either “don’t ask, don’t tell” (to avoid jealousy/awkwardness) or in some cases, “share and share alike” (if you’re ok with 3-ways and not jealous type).
Being honest with your partner about your sexual needs is important (not all partners are willing to be kinky or some things you might really like to try). Initially it’s hard for both to talk about it, but eventually you both need to assure your partner it’s just a sexual outlet, not looking for a replacement, and your heart belongs to each other.
I don’t care what you guys claim to know over me. I have been out for close to thirty years. I’ve been around the block more then a few times. There are many couples who are monogamous. I am not saying it’s a majority, but there a quite a few. My best friends who will be celebrating 25 years together soon are monogamous. Both are negative and want to stay that way. But that’s not the reason. They don’t want or need to fuck around. If you can’t open your minds to the concept then you are deeper in it then I thought. You don’t give gay men as a whole much credit.
Maybe they are afraid of people who don’t disclose and lie about their HIV status. Maybe they lost trust in their fellow man. Or…. maybe they are happy and content and don’t need outside sources to satisfy their sexual needs.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I thought raw top presented it fairly. You may not agree with his views but respect is in order. Have you really paid attention to what was on this site: Raw top has stated in the past that he will pretty much always advocate bare backing over condom use. He states his opinions, notes dissent and attempts to offer another view to what is usually out there. I don’t agree with all of his opinions but I credit him for being informed on both sides of the issues he presents and allowing others to make their own informed opinions. And that includes the forum for people to disagree with him and be treated with respect.
I often agree with Rawtop but not on this one. Forget the moralizing on monogamy. But the study simply doesn’t say whether these people were taking multiple loads. In fact the only thing it says it they were taking their lover’s. Unless the suthors were dumb, they must have thought of asking. So I don’t see how you can take it for granted and draw a conclusion of such consequence based on this unverified assumption. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s a long way from being a fact…
“Tom” says:
“We as adults have some responsibility in doing what we can to help them and educate them so they stay safe, STD free, and HIV-. ”
I agree that we have a responsibility to the next generation, but part of that responsibility includes being true to ourselves. How do we serve anyone if deep down, we don’t do monogamy, but we put on a front “for the children”? or just as bad, deny our own natures for someone else’s alleged benefit? I think you are framing things too narrowly; there’s more than one set of values at work here. Sure, it’s troubling that many 20-somethings don’t seem to have a clue about HIV (or care about the long term consequences of it) but we don’t change that by pretending to be something we aren’t. Monogamy is not the only healthy choice on the market, and HIV status is not the only measure of health.
I know, I’m not going to convince you that bareback sex, or non-monogamy, is anything but self destructive and unhealthy. But just consider this perspective for a moment: monogamy and safe sex can be absolutely right for you, and barebacking and non-monogamy can be absolutely right for rawTOP (among others). The two positions are not mutually exclusive.
Now back to the actual study: I suspect that the reason that long term relationships were studied is that there is no way to account for all the variables otherwise. When you’re looking at a long term couple, you can get data about the top, such as his viral load, CD4 count, how compliant he is with his meds, whether or not he smokes or parties, and so on. When you try to look at someone who takes it raw from strangers, by design you cannot collect that information. So: how do you account for differences among the bottoms? There are just too many unknown variables. So unless you can design a study where a guy takes “anonymous” loads from random guys (just fill out this research questionnaire please, and let the research nurse take a blood sample) you’re not going to be able to get a truly scientific look at that population.
That said, the admittedly non-scientific data on the large number of guys who engage in that practice is pretty suggestive that, at the very least, it’s not as harmful as one might expect (or maybe hope, for the folks who believe that raw sex is always ALWAYS baaaaaaad). Although I’m more top than bottom, I’ve still been taking raw loads for almost a decade since my poz diagnosis, some from long term fuckbuds and some from strangers, and I’ve NEVER had to change meds because of resistance issues. My viral load has never been high enough since the initial diagnosis to do resistance testing. I know lots of guys in the same boat. If it really were harmful, I think you would see a lot more poz bottoms encountering resistance issues.
Hey rawtop, any thoughts about this?
stdcarriers.com/stdcarriers.aspx
I wonder if your name and photo were up here if you would feel differently about your lifestyle.
Just food for thought…
I think it’s easy to do what you do as long as you don’t have to answer to the whole world…i know you think what you do is only between you and the trashcan bottoms you fuck, but is it really? aren’t we all potentially affected?
The best thing you can do is get tested and get on good meds. The less virus you have in your system a. the healthier you’ll be and b. the less likely you’d be to pass it on. There have been recent studies that have seemed to prove that people with an undetectable viral load (<50-75 in most current tests) have a statistically/scientifically insignificant, possibly altogether no chance of passing the virus through sexual contact. (Note the last three words.)
I am 24 and lived in denial for a long time because we’re taught that HIV=death and therefore the last thing I wanted was a piece of paper telling me I had it. Fortunately my delay didn’t end up costing my health or allowing me to pass it on, but what barebackers should remember is that in general a positive person ON MEDS (or with a very weak and stable strain, but even that I wouldn’t risk) is a safer person to get a load from than someone who “doesn’t know.” Even now I tend to avoid “don’t knows” or the “negs” who are obviously “don’t knows” in disguise (trust me I know, I was one) so I don’t pick up some nasty monster strain of the virus.
There’s a real disconnect between prevention strategies and post-contraction coping strategies as far as P.R. is concerned. Even though I did not purposefully seek to get HIV (rather made a decision to take risks and deal with the consequences), I am 100% happier and feel 100% safer with my health than when I was “negative/unsure.”
But yes, RawTOP, I couldn’t agree more that the real nastiness comes in the form of other STDs. Honestly, people, they’re so easy (and relatively inexpensive) to cure! The more we get regular STD testing the less we’ll spread it around. Sorry this is so long but it’s not easy being young and positive (nor is it easy to be older and positive, but there are definitely differences in the way society views you…you know it’s true!). Thanks for letting me speak out.