Here are some excerpts from a thread on bnskin.com – some of the comments are so completely wrong it's just not funny…

Guy in Las Vegas: When chatting with guys in chat rooms, if they ask the question, you clean? And then you reply, yes, then they want you to come over, but if you say no, I'm not, they say, OK forget it. How NAIVE can these guys really be? Do they really believe someone who will just say, I'm clean? I think asking that question is totally ridiculous only because it can not be proven.

Guy in Massachusetts: I think most people lie about this, or are naive about what other people would do. I don't like to think I'm cynical, just realistic.

Guy in Seattle: For someone who's neg and wants to stay that way, the only safe thing to do is to assume that everyone else is poz, even if they tell you're not. I do wonder if guys who will easily accept an "I'm neg" comment are naive or just want to believe it so they can get laid. I'm sure it's happened to others, but one guy I met years ago wouldn't have sex with me because I was honest and told him I was poz. He would have been perfectly fine to play if I hadn't volunteered that. I didn't get the logic.

ME: Oh please…. I'm so sick of hearing that people who ask about status are naive… It's one of many things that are called RISK REDUCTION – no one is calling it risk elimination. Get off your high horses – risk reduction, in any form, helps.

The other assumption in Las Vegas' comment is that most or many poz guys lie about their HIV status. That's an awefully cynical view of the world which I just refuse to subscribe to. On something as important as HIV I think most people are decent and tell the truth if asked a clear, direct question. I will agree that "Are you clean?" is a stupid question – because it's not clear and direct.

And as far as Seattle's "the only safe thing to do"… The answer to that is "not have sex" – everything else involves risk, which then means that all neg guys are naive for having sex. OK, that doesn't work, so let's start back at the beginning – risk reduction, in any form, helps.

Some Slave: If asking "was" a form of risk reduction, I would agree with you, but it isnt.

It can take the body up to three months to make enough antibodies to be detectable on the HIV test, but most people will create enough antibodies in just 4 weeks after infection. This 4 week to 3 month time frame the window period. During the window period, the HIV test may not be able to detect infection. SO, you can be HIV POSITIVE, show negative on a test, and still be able to infect people.

Still think asking someone's status is risk reduction?

ME: DAMN, that's just so wrong…

There are a shitload of guys out there that _know_ they're poz. If you don't ask them their status, then you won't know they're poz.

The fact that a few guys don't know their status is irrelevant. This is RISK REDUCTION, not risk elimination. Why is that hard for people to comprehend?

Let's say 50% of the guys you think of hooking up with are poz and 80% of those guys know they're poz (I'm pulling those numbers out of my ass — don't take them too literally – they'll actually vary for each person). If you don't ask their status, 50% of the guys you play with will be poz. If you do ask their status, then 10% of the guys you hookup with will be poz. That means you've had an 80% reduction in risk. Put another way, it means it will take you 5 times longer to become poz. During that time an effective vaccine could come out or at least there will be better treatments available… Or you might not become poz at all…

Asking is a form of risk reduction.

Guy in Denver: rawTOP, you're right, asking is one form of risk reduction. I think what most people here are trying to get at is that it's not anywhere near as effective as other methods.

I guess the point is that a lot of people think that the harm reduction of just asking is so small given the number of guys who either don't know they're poz or who lie about it (particularly among guys who fuck around a lot bareback) that it's hardly worth it.

A 20 year old: "Asking is a form of risk reduction."

Yeah. And it helps as much as pulling out and douching.

ME: Denver Guy – I think asking about status can actually be a pretty effective risk reduction strategy. I don't think much lower than 80% number I pulled out of my ass before – though I don't have any hard data to support the number. But asking is probably one of several risk reduction strategies the person is using. Think about it – anyone who asks about status in a consistent manner isn't going to sex clubs and bathhouses 'cause you can't really ask very easily in venues like that, which means they're also limiting the number of partners they have. And if you're asking, you're at least thinking about the risk you're taking… It all adds up – and remember the benchmark is condoms which are only 90-95% harm reduction (there is hard data for that one). So I don't really see the "not nearly as effective" part either… If I'm even in the ballpark of the risk reduction of a condom and don't have to actually use one, I'm happy…

20 year old – If the top really does pull out, then it is a form of risk reduction for the bottom (not the top). Though, if I were a bottom I'd be an idiot to make it my only form of risk reduction – but what we're talking about is multiple layers that add up to a fair amount of risk reduction.

When you repeatedly muliply fractions you get smaller and smaller numbers – that's the idea with risk reduction – if you practice multiple forms of it you can get a pretty decent reduction in risk.

It's almost as if people who weren't good in math and statistics can't understand risk reduction well enough to keep themselves safe.

Then there's the issue of how many poz guys really lie about their HIV status.

What does everyone thing about all this?